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made without a miranda warning or made while he's not really competent between times when he's sedated and not sedated. so they may be risking their death penalty, but they may be doing it for a good reason. they may need realtime intelligence, but i don't think that the public safety exception will stand up for allowing them not to have given the miranda warnings. >> fascinating. in fact, i have a lot of questions about that i'm going to get to. and actually i want to bring in another colleague as well right now. steve razor is a former military judge advocate general and knows a thing or two about this military issue. typically, steve, we hear about a 48-hour window and this is a very new area of justice. this has only been in sort of parlay for the last couple of years. we are far outside of that 48 hours by today. but can it be extended in the case of public safety? and exactly when can you establish that a public safety exemption has expired or is no longer of concern? how long can you keep him from getting miranda? >> well, there's no hard and fast rule on that. and that's exactl
to the miranda rule. they've not advised him of his rights. so they can only ask about potential threats to public safety. were there other conspirators, other bombs out there, any reason to believe that public safety is in any way jeopardized. >> pete, one of the persons cited in terms of this idea that there may have been more violent plans on order at the hands of the brothers is this person who was hijacked by the brothers on thursday night. and the driver of a mercedes suv. we know that he's been cooperating with police. is there anything else that we know about his involvement in all of this? >> yeah, the business about new york is very iffy, frankly. i've emailed briefly with this person. he claims that he escaped with they stopped at a gasoline station. but he's also told the police that he was told by these two men, that they were the marathon bombers. but that they were not going to kill him because he was not an american. what he told the police was, that he thought they were speaking arabic. that's probably not the case, they were probably speaking russian or some dialect. an
, everyone grows with racle-gro. >>> there was no miranda warning given. that they were claiming a public safety exception. could we get an explanation for that. >> there is a public safety exemption in cases of national security and charges involving acts of terrorism and so the government has that opportunity right now, though i believe that the suspect has been taken to a hospital. >> you heard it right there. no miranda rights were read to the suspect here last night. a justice department official says the bombing suspect won't be read the miranda rights because of a public saflt exception. so what is the next judicial step? let's ask the executive director of the american center for law and justice. good morning. i think a lot of folks are not familiar with this public safety exemption. why invoke that at this time? >> usually it's rare, it would be an instance where there is a gun or some kind of in this situation, unexploded bombs. it's important for people to understand, this is not the most extreme move. what you get from this is very limited interrogation and on top of that, it
to not or blank or turned his head. if it was given prior to the reading of his miranda rights, it would probably be unlikely they would use that against him in court. if it was used voluntarily afterwards, likely he would. about the fact he has lawyered up, most likely we could send the information probably came prior to his reading of the miranda rights. we don't know that right now. >> thank you very much indeed. an extraordinary court session took place inside his hospital room. a transcript of that hearing tonight that tells us about the accused bomber and the case. jason, tell us what happens, it is fascinating. >> it really is and it is an nine page transcript we got hold of. what i can tell you is this proceeding lasted about ten or 15 minutes, started about 11:30 this morning. all of the key figures came into the hospital room and all of them introduce themselves. you had the u.s. judge there and attorneys from both sides. a court reporter there as well. and everyone present wanted to make sure that he knew exactly what was going on, know about the charges that he is facing. let me read
negotiation with the fbi he gives himself up. >> right. >> they arrest him. they don't read him his miranda rights. explain. >> i'm not great on this. my understanding with the fbi and the federal authorities is that it's a terrorist act that they don't get certain rights that the rest of us would be afforded. they wanted to make sure that if we did speak with him that he wouldn't be given his miranda rights and something else kicked in. he was just -- >> you were told this in advance. if you found the guy, your officers are not going to read him his miranda rights. >> this never played out. there was no interviewing at the scene. he needed aid. >> he was in no position to talk. >> exactly. >> he was a very weak -- did he mumble anything? did he say anything? did he give any political statements? >> my understanding is he didn't have anything to say. i don't know for sure. >> what about during the 20-minute negotiation with the fbi when they were working out his surrender? did he make any statements that could be useful? >> no. i'm not aware of any statements. i think it was more he was fin
suspect as enemy combat tant. remember, he wasn't read his miranda rights. what would it mean? and why is it important? the constitutional attorney will weigh in on this when we come back. morning, brian! loveour passat! um. listen, gary. i bought the lt one. nice try. says right here you can get one for $199 a month. you can't believe the lame-stream media, gary. they're all gone. maybe i'll get one. [ male announcer ] now everyone's going to want one. you can't have the same car as me, gary! i'm gett' one. nope! [ male announcer ] volkswagen springtoberfest is here and there's no better time to get a passat. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease one of four volkswagen models for under $200 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. the battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto-insurance
not get his miranda rights. >> among of group of republicans calling for the boston bombing suspect to be considered an enemy combatant. that means he would not have the same constitutional protection as a regular citizen, with regard to what he says as the investigation moves forward. will this happen? california congressman, a senior member of the intelligence committee. congressman, always good to see you. i know that you disagree with the congressman and think that the suspect is in custody. is entitled to his miranda rights. why? >> well, i think the administration is handling it exactly correct. there is a public safety exception under the miranda allowing law enforcement to interview him, making sure there are no other bombs, threats, perpetrators still out there giving the law enforcement flexibility to do the that prior to miranda and i think the court will interpret it broadly and give them the time they need to make sure that the public is safe. after that, he will have to be mirandized, doesn't mean the end of cooperation, but no basis yet to conclude they should be trea
analyst. the 19-year-old has not been read his miranda rights. why does this matter what has it allowed for? what is the issue here? >> a lot of variables here, the question is he in any kwan condition to answer questions with or without miranda? what is his health situation? also, even if he doesn't get miranda warnings, he may decline to answer questions in any case. they can't force him to answer questions, but if he does not receive miranda warnings and if he then anticipates questions those answers cannot be used in a criminal case against him. they can be used for intelligence gathering. they can be used if there are other conspirators who may be prosecuted, can't be used against him. other evidence can be used against him. may be lots of other evidence. if you don't get miranda warnings, your statements i can't be used against you. >> so this is a sensitive issue. another sensitive issue raised by republican senators, lindsey graham, kelly ayotte, peter king, they released a statement, the suspect, based upon his actions, clearly is a good candidate for enemy combat tant status.
gathering purposes since he's been president. when we read these people their miranda rights and give them a lawyer the only way you can gather intelligence is if the terror suspect and the lawyer will allow you to do so. intelligence gathering through plea bargaining is not going to make us safe. jenna: so we spoke to a former member of the fbi on our show yesterday that seems to not have a problem with miranda rights, that is their opinion. we'll see what they get as far as information from this one suspect. >> can i mention something. jenna: please. >> i don't have a problem with miranda rights. this man can only be tried in federal court. he's never eligible for military commissions. a first year law student could convict this person. what i'm worried about is what does he know about future attacks? he's telling us that his brother was the bad guy, he's sort of just along for the ride. they had no international connections. guess what, he's down-playing his involvement. what i am suggesting is that we use the national security legal system where we can interview him without a lawyer to
's miranda rights. they said he could still pose a threat either because there are more bombs planted out there or he's connected to a larger terrorist cell. either way it has some lawmakers concerned. as investigators continue to interrogate their suspect some lawmakers argue he should be treated as an enemy combatant and denied an attorney for the time being. >> we should be allowed her intelligence-gathering purposes. >> investigators say they're still uncertain whether zocor and his brother tamerlan who died in a shoot-out on friday with police have any ties to fore te union issued a statement saying we must not waver from our tried and true justice system even in the most difficult of times. denial of rights is un-american and will only make it harder to obtain fair convictions. some liberal lawmakers agree and said they would be comfortable with tsarnaev being designated as an enemy combatant. >> i don't believe. it would beunconstitutional to >> it carries its own risk especially if that suspect is an american citizen. it could be challenged in court and that
is remote. >> right. you know, judge, a lot of people h ve been talking about miranda, the public safety exception. i don't want to spend a lot of time on that. but, you know, when the police announced that the public threat was over, once dzhokhar was taken into custody, doesn't that suggest that the public safety exception doesn't kick in, or has been solidified? >> the public safety exception is in no way applicable in this case. that was for a situation where there was a gun in a public place and the police needed to know where it was. they asked the guy they just caught where's the gun before where was the gun? >>> they asked where is the gun. >> be that as it may you have a public defender in boston who is chomping at the bit to appoint a federal judge to defend the suspect. you could reassign a public defender is he or sheable to come in and say i don't want you talking to my client? >> he or she can say that. it's not going to stop this trying to do is to collect intelligence. i'm sure that if that's what they're trying to do, they will simply continue to do it, and gather only
of public safety exception before you give him his miranda rights, all that talk of naming him as an enemy combatant, all of that is moot right now. they've gone forward with the official proceedings. >> well, they may have used the public safety exception, and apparently they were using it to question him, and he responded in some way given his medical condition. but certainly now that he has a lawyer, that period, however long it was, is over. and you're right, the enemy combatant thing was a nonstarter from the never going to happen. this is a criminal case in federal court in massachusetts, and that's where it will stay until it's resolved one way or another. >> it's going to take a while. thanks very much, jeffrey. much more on what's going on in this boston investigation coming up here in "the situation room" 0. >>> also, another terror plot released today, new information. canadian authorities announcing the arrest of two men believed to be part of a terror plot to attack a passenger train that may have been heading towards the united states, the plot said to have an alleged connect
okayed the suspension of the suspect's miranda rights. is that a temporary suspension? >> reporter: yes, by law it is. it's called the public safety exception to the miranda rule. normally you have to tell someone they have a right to remain silent and if you don't, then you can't use anything they tell you in court. so that's why the miranda warning is given. but there is an exception. you don't have to do it if there's a possible threat to public safety. and here obviously there's a concern about whether there are potential accomplices. investigators say they haven't found any. or other explosives. they say they haven't found any of those either but that's what they want to ask him. and this exception probably begins to expire the moment you invoke it so it's probably no good for more than a day or two but nonetheless they can do that. afterwards they'll have to give him his miranda warning and say whether he'll continue to answer questions. the justice department says even in very serious cases like this, most people in custody do continue to talk. >> pete, who's going to be interrog
ginnis in boston. thank you, susan. >>> for now federal officials have decided not to read tsarnaev his miranda rights. miranda rights inform criminals of their right to remain silent and their right to an attorney. this is allowed on a limited basis when the public may be in immediate danger, and there are those like senator lindsey graham who say tsarnaev should be consideredn enemy combatant so he can waive his right. others disagree. >> there's plenty of evidence. they don't need it to get him into a trial. i don't think we have to cross the line and say he's an enemy combatant which could be challenged in court. one circuit rules one way, one rules the other way. >> we should reserve the right to look at him as an enemy combatant and continue to look for evidence and if we find evidence and go to him as chuck says and gather intelligence. >> now the suspect's mother says tamer lan was contacted by fbi. the fbi says that is not true but the fbi did interview him in 2011 at the request of the russian government. officials are focusing on a trip he made to russia in 2012. sky news's katie sta
miranda rights? >> yes, that's my view. >> so that changes nothing in view of their ability to interrogate? >> what it changes is their ability to question him and use any statement that he makes. that they're not allowed to do. >> he is apparently claiming -- >> they don't need that in this case. they got a mountain of evidence against this guy. >> right. they have testified it seems against him and his brother for the act they perpetrated. >> correct. >> what they will i'm sure be extremely curious to find out if they can is are they part of a wider group of either like-minded individuals who have been coordinating themselves reading stuff on the internet, videos and so on, which apparently is what he's claiming. whether they're attached to anybody in chechnya, for example, or islamic fundamentalist nature, et cetera, et cetera, how far can you go in terms of eliciting that information from somebody like him in his position once he's had his miranda rights read to him as he now has? >> my view is you can go as far as you think it's productive to go. however, i don't think it's terribly p
news tsarnaev will not be given a miranda warning when he's physically able to be interrogated after receiving medical treatment. instead, the official says the government will invoke a legal rule known as the public safety exception. that will allow investigators to question tsarnaev without first advising him of his right to remain silent and be afforded legal counsel. president obama used his weekly address today to praise law enforcement and those involved in tracking tsarnaev down. >> americans refused to be terrorized. ultimately, that's what we'll remember from this week. that's what will remain, the stories of heroism and kindness, resolve and resilience, generosity, and love. >> authorities caught up with the suspect after a tip from a watertown resident. he was hiding in a boat parked outside a home. he is now in a boston hospital and nbc's ron allen is joining me from there. ron, with a good afternoon to you, let's get the very latest on his condition. are you getting word from the hospital or are they staying somewhat silent on that? >> reporter: absolutely silent, alex.
dzhokhar tsarnaev to investigators, we do not know if that was before or after he received his miranda warnings or before or after he obtained counsel. that's an excellent point. one of the things we do know that he is saying apparently is that it was his brother tamerlan who was the mastermind here. is that something that could be helpful to his defense if he was merely following his brother? >> well, it will be helpful to his defense in the sense of mitigating the penalty that he might end up suffering. from what i've read and what i've seen, he's clearly as culpable as his brother. the videos that they picked up, and the statements that he made to the driver of the suv, all would indicate that he was a willing participant in this crime, and also the fact that he fled from the scene would further indicate his willingness to participate in this crime. however, any influence that he might have suffered from his brother, his brother's influence on him, may again go to mitigate any penalty that might be imposed upon him. whether he ends up getting the death penalty or whether he ends up
, let me come over to you, a lot of talk about miranda. but give me a sense of what the leeway is especially in situations like this, after acts like what happened here at the marathon. >> well, it is yesterday's news. he's been given his miranda warnings and probably anything he said without his miranda warnings is not going to be needed by the government or the prosecution. remember, they did not indict him as a terrorist, that's very important. they indicted him as an ordinary murderer, anybody who wants to kill their mother-in-law, business partner and makes an improvised explosive device and kills them is just as guilty under the statute indicted as osama bin laden might be. this is not a terrorist prosecution. they don't have to prove intent to terrorize, intent to intimidate. they can prove their case just through the videotapes. now, i predict there are going to be two types of possible defenses in this case. number one, the jihad defense. i did it, i'm proud, i'm happy, please kill me, i want to join my brother in paradise. i'm a martyr. the other, my brother made me d
yet to be charged in connection with the attack or been notified of his miranda rights, however, this morning officials tell nbc news he's awake and using pen and paper to answer questions from investigators. all of this as the fbi says it has obtained surveillance footage showing tsarnaev putting down his backpack near the finish line just minutes before the explosion. massachusetts governor deval patrick says he's been briefed on the footage. >> the suspect took the backpack off, put it down, did not react when the first explosion went off and then moved away from the backpack in time for the second explosion, so pretty clear about his involvement and pretty chilling, frankly. >> all right, so while we wait on that video, i want you to look at these new infrared images released showing the final intense moments of the manhunt. stun grenades just exploded as police moved in to capture the 19-year-old, and it capped a nearly four-day search for dzhokhar and his older brother, tamerlan, and while the nation was reeling, we are getting word this morning that the brothers actually
are told he had not been given his miranda rights. do you have any sense of whether he has this morning or how soon it will be before he does receive them? >> the -- the decision not to read miranda rights was made by the federal officials. this is a unique clause to the terrorism law that we've not dealt with at the local level before. so, we are standing by and watching that at this point in time to see how that develops. but, the lawyers are involved in the decision, and certainly we're very anxious to talk to him, and the investigators will be doing that as soon as possible. >> commissioner over the weekend i heard you say you believe you found evidence your offices did you believe that these brothers were planning some kind of another attack, or at least prepared for it. tell us about that. >> the two suspects were armed with handguns at the scene of the shoot-out. and there were multiple explosive devices, including a large one that was similar to the pressure cooker device that was found on boylston street. i saw that with my own eyes. i believe that the only reason that someone
the question this is exactly the whole issue going back to the miranda, if he had the public safety concern of what were those explosive devices intended for? that's one of the reasons they wanted to talk to him or one of the things thaw wanted to talk to him about at the time before they realized how severely hurt he was. it absolutely proves the point there could have more more attacks planned or another person who was a part of it who maybe at the last minute didn't do it. another reason to think there was more planned is maybe that's why they didn't kill themselves at the time of the marathon attack. they wanted to live to attack another day. >> jeff, somebody must have trained them. can you learn to build a bomb by yourself just by going to the internet and going out there, go to a home depot and buying this kind of stuff? >> you could try to learn, but what you would certainly want to do is rehearse. you don't want to go through the operational energy that it would take to mount an attack like at the marathon without having a fair degree of confidence that your device is going to work
was given his miranda rights? >> we don't know as of yet. he has been read his miranda rights. but we don't know if this information came before or after. as you know there was a public safety exemption before he was read his miranda rights. so there was time when law enforcement had the opportunity to talk to him before he had quote/unquote lawyered up. but we don't know yet whether or not this information came before he said he understood his rights, or after. >> all right, jake tapper, terrific reporting. great to have you here this morning. >> thanks, john. >> don't miss "the lead" every day at 4:00. we're also learning more this morning about -- we're learning more this morning about criminal complaints against tsarnaev detailing step by step how the deadly attack on the boston marathon unfolded. our coverage continues this morning with miguel marquez outside best israel deaconess medical center right here in boston. good morning, miguel. >> good morning, john. this is the criminal complaint that contains what we expect are the first charges. we'll see many more against mr. tsarnaev.
now has closed that limited scope that they were able to focus on before reading him his miranda rights? >> not necessarily. that could go independently. i guess now that they've had this initial appearance, i suppose that's a fair assumption. it isn't automatic but that's probably right. >> what about michael isikoff, our colleague is reporting that i.c.e. homeland security has focused on new bedford, massachusetts and two individuals were taken in for immigration violations and they apparently are friends of tamerlan tsarnaev. can you tell me any more about that? >> these are people, i presume he is talking about people detained in new bedford, massachusetts on friday evening. the fbi has been trying to investigate whether they had any knowledge of this. whether they had any role in it. they seem to have concluded that they don't. but they're being held for now on immigration charges pending further investigation. >> and before i let you go, i know you have more to cover. 2009, this police report of tamerlan tsarnaev being arrested on domestic violence allegations. that has bee
but say they were not in contact with overseas terror groups. he was read his miranda rights during an initial court appearance from the hospital that gives the suspect access to a lawyer. and means he will not be tried as an enemy combatant. described as a possible gun shot wound to the hand, the 19-year-old has been described as cooperative during questioning, forced to write his answers or nod yes or no. he told investigators that he and his brother came up with the attacks on their own finding internet resources to learn how to make bombs. he's been assigned three public defenders and could very well face the death penalty. a weekend search of dzhokhar's dorm room turned up a black jacket and white hat, similar to the surveillance photos. investigators also want to question tsarnaev's wife. she later converted to islam, dropped out of college and had a child with him. her attorney has said she had no suspicions that her husband might be plotting an attack. meanwhile, hundreds of people stood in silence at 2:50 p.m. one week after the bombings. president obama marked the moment o
. just to confirm, this -- dzhokhar tsarnaev has not yet been read his miranda rights, correct? >> i have to say i don't know. because there was an initial appearance today, that's why this complaint is out. the circuit executive, the administrator of this area, has put out a statement saying there was an initial appearance before a magistrate judge. that is as far as i understand it an arraignment. i have never heard of an arraignment without an attorney present. they didn't mention an attorney present. if an attorney is present, the attorney will simply say to the client, you -- don't answer questions. at that point, the attorney is the person the prosecutor is supposed to deal with. i have to say, there is information out there that we don't have. whether an attorney was present, whether this was an actual arraignment, i think we just need to hold off on that until we get more information. >> we're holding off. still so early this all happened. >> before we let deb feyerick go and chase down that lead she was referring to, deb, i was wondering, is there anything else that stands out in
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